tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5352536197106136774.post9075515588066207208..comments2023-10-28T05:08:25.942-05:00Comments on Lunch Break: Tortured Arguments for TortureJohn Jansenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08241558776415884637noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5352536197106136774.post-24335603459949349222009-12-08T16:50:42.796-06:002009-12-08T16:50:42.796-06:00After all, if the debate about torture is not a de...<i>After all, if the debate about torture is not a debate about morality but rather a debate about utility, then why impose limits on ourselves? If, by torturing terrorists' relatives, we could conceivably have more success extracting information from them than by merely torturing the terrorists themselves, why not do it? </i><br /><br />Yes, exactly! In fact, it's what the Bible teaches. One of the best examples of how NOT to use torture can be found in Second Maccabees 7, where King Antiochus tortures the seven brothers and their mother to no avail. Antiochus mistake was in starting with the oldest brother and torturing him first. He died a martyr and served as an inspiration to the others. Antiochus should have started with the youngest brother, or perhaps even the mother, and tortured the weakest of them in front of the others. Probably, even if the weakest of them could have withstood it, the older brothers would have broken under the strain of watching those they loved best being tortured. This bad example is so famous that even Communists cite it as an example of how NOT to torture. As Lenin said: "If you would break a chain, you must seize it by the weakest link!"<br /><br />Of course, I myself am against wars of Imperialism (even if we call them "wars on terror"), and so I would have to renounce torture as being inherently imperialistic.The Dutchmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15634052176803455348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5352536197106136774.post-11625889855059905222009-12-07T15:36:14.022-06:002009-12-07T15:36:14.022-06:00John Jansen, I ran across your response to Abnpopp...John Jansen, I ran across your response to Abnpoppa on my post regarding torture. If you're serious about engaging him in a debate he can be found at his own blog; http://conservativeoutrage.blogspot.com/<br /><br />The comment about waterboarding your mother till the ocean runs dry is in a tone he won't normally use when debating someone. You caught him at a low point, at that time the man's wife had recently passed away and his son was on active duty "in the sandbox". He wasn't in the best of moods.<br /><br />If you seriously want to debate the man on the topic or any other, I recommend going to his blog. He's reasonable and treats everyone with respect. Doesn't tolerate any mudslinging from anyone to anyone either. <br /><br />Congratulations on the birth of your son, figured that might be why you never returned to that particular post. Unlike others at the Catholic Dads site, you're not a likely "driveby" commenter. You seem like someone who would stick around for a debate. <br /><br />Take care, hope to hear more from you. <br /><br />SubvetSubvethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13523683273450353313noreply@blogger.com